Conway River/Devil's Ditch - URGENT

[bigdaddyyj]

Conway river/ Devils Ditch trail is not legal for ORV traffic. Please do not attemp to run this trail.

Please contact me with any questions,

Gregg Jackson
VA4WD
Land use coordinator.

[CORE 4WD]

PM sent.

[Deleted]

[Chele]

I am so heart broken ....

I wonder if it will open for hunting season.

[bensredyj]

I think its cause it crosses the National Forest boundry if I recall.

[Jim63]

and it was so fun

[4WDnRocksNmud]

i have the number to the warden in henrico county... I'll see if he has any details tomorrow sometime.

[CORE 4WD]

I'm not liking what I'm finding. I really want to hear it from the horse's mouth though. This from Dark Side Offroad Club forum. Once again, there are plenty of "regular" roads that are within these specifications, so what if this doesn't "look" like a regular road? It's a road without pavement, not maintained, S.R. 667-


streetdoc
Chief Idiot/BOD


Joined: Dec 24, 2005
Posts: 232
Location: BFE (Unionville, VA)
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: Conway River Trail - CLOSED

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I talked to a National Park Ranger today, the trail that everybody uses for Conway River is either across private property or within the boundries of the National Park. There is no authorized vehicle use of this trail within the park boundries!

This trail is not to be used anymore!
_________________
Great minds think alike....either that or all idiots stick together...I always get those confused.
95 YJ with a little XJ and TJ in it, Winch, 3" lift, 35x12.50 Cooper
STT

To add-
The original historic Conway River Trail washed out and the trail which is now used (south entrance) was built on SNP (Shenandoah National Park)property. SNP does not like OHV use. The other end is RWMA (Rapidan Wildlife management Area) and the landowners up there are trying to close that end as well.

So basically, S.R. 667 was/is a historic route that was re-claimed by Mother Nature (Conway River) and unless we can get SNP to let us use/maintain that part of trail, we're screwed.

[Chele]

Hmm...maybe we can all pull together. I know it is HEAVILY used by hunters because I got their Yahoo group. I think I'll go back and check their message board.

I wonder which part is SNP. I know that on the entrance with the signs, me and Debbie went ALL THE WAY (quite a drive) to the end and there was a sign that says wildlife area/do no cross except on foot, then...at the waterfall-that's the backside of Bearfence Mountain in SNP.

Okay, I'll chk the hunters forum and get back with my findings later today.

[CORE 4WD]

SNP area is south or Middle River Road side. Basically, west of river. If one had GPS coordinates of old River Road you could plot it to see how much original (and legal) road is still there.

To add-

Just got off the phone with "streetdoc" who has extensively researched this area and supplied me with names and phone numbers of area managers/rangers. The Old Conway River Road was washed out in the 90's and never rebuilt. The existing trail is on SNP land and cannot be OHV traveled. The north end exits onto Rapidan Wildlife Management Area and you cannot go off main road (615). The kiosk which posts useage info there (at the parking lot) lists useage only (not things that can't be used). In other words, if it's not on the list you can't do it. OHV travel is not on the list. The place is getting too much traffic, is being more closely monitered and new signs are being put in place.
Anybody want to go for a Hike? I know where there's a great trail full of water crossings and a waterfall at one end! Nothing like a little exercise... ;D J/K
Dave

[Chele]

Actually I was thinking about a hike there lol...

I wanted to add this email information too:

To all concerned,

These are copies of e-mails I have received from David Gilmore, of Beltway Jeepers, FM2CD. I have tried to reach Mrs. Peppers and Mr. Lovelace on Friday. I will continue today to get ah-old of them.

This has been a topic of discussion for some time now. I have heard from some others that they have talked and walked with rangers up the and it was OK. My self and friend went out there a couple of weeks ago. And I can tell you that We turned around and left. It was posted for hiking and horses, but not ORV. There has also been some issue with the local land owners complaining of people parking tow rigs on the sides of the road. This has pretty much brought light to this trail.

I will continue to get ahold of the persons in charge there, and try to update everyone promptly. And I will try to start a relationship so that we can possibly reopen this trail and maybe some others in the future. If anyone has any other info on this trail, please forward it to me ASAP. Names, Numbers, Anything that would help.

But as for right now, please consider this trail closed until we can truly confirm its proposed usage.

Thanks







Quote's:
Update, I talked to Ranger Lora Peppers, SNP a couple of hours ago the results are there is no legal use of the Conway River Trail, within the park period! The road that everybody thinks is the historical Road was washed out during the floods in the mid nineties. People came along and recreated a road without approval and within the boundries of the National Park. So, bewteen crossing over unmarked private property, unintended use of State Wild Management Areas and illegal entry into SNP, we need to inform all of the clubs that this area is officially closed for what we want to do.
Please note that Ranger Peppers is included in this e-mail, I am also going to forward to her everything else that I have done as far as finding out if we could use this area. If anybody has questions please feel free to contact me.


David Gilmore

Here's a link to a map of both Conway River Trail and Rapidan WMA ; rapidanwma.org/rapidanpdf.pdf This area is in parts of Green and Madison Counties along with Shenandoah National Park. Its one of those quiet trails that some people know about and others don't. Some of the problems are that the borders are not real clear, the actual trail is a historical road and isn't closed but it is in such a condition that if you are not driving a Jeep you won't fit on most of the trail. One of the more challenging sections (Devils Ditch) isn't part of the road and ends up in the wilderness area of SNP, a definite do not enter area. Most of this discussion started because several clubs started talking more about this trail and then it comes up with not clear cut answer of can we be on the this trail. Posted information has a lot of leeway as to where borders ar e and intended vs legal use of this area. I did some research and contacted Virginia DGIF and was referred to either Jerry Sims or Dan Lovelace. I talked to Jerry and the down and dirty answer about use is Off Road Vehicles are not an authorized use of property belonging to DGIF, SNP doesn't like Off Road vehicles at all and most of the property owners there would like to area closed to vehicle travel. There is still a amount of leeway there but it might not be worth the fight. I still have not been able to talk to the Ranger in SNP about her feeling about using the main section of the trail as it runs along Conway River as long as we stay out of the Devils Ditch. I have left several messages but no return calls yet. After I talked to Jerry Sims I e-mailed him with the notes that I had from our phone conversation just to make sure that there was no misunderstanding, I copied this to Gregg and Dan Lovelace also so that the y would not be in the dark about what was going on. This is where we are at right now. I still want to talk to the Ranger with SNP but the issue is almost dead.

David Gilmore
Conversation with Jerry Sims, DGIF Property Manager for Rapidan Wildlife Management Area on 6/8/06



The WMA are not intended for use by Off-road vehicles.

No groups larger than 12.

Devils Ditch is not a road; it was used for and by heavy equipment to pull logs down to trucks for logging timber. It is a closed area! More signs will be up by Saturday to indicate no vehicle access.

Conway River trail is a historical road, that is why it is still opened but it is at risk of being closed. It is mostly in SNP and some private land owners not RWMA. The northern entrance/exit is RWMA. The private land owners would like to see the trail closed.

Objections and complaints to our use consist of noise, size of groups, interfering with hunting and fishing, destruction of wildlife habit, and going into unauthorized/closed areas.

Here's a link to their basic regulations: www.dgif.state.va.us/hunting/regulations/wma_rules.pdf



They would like our help in keeping the area clean. He also gave be a POC with SNP that I haven't been able to talk to yet. Would you please let the members of DSO know that the Devils Ditch is no vehicle access.





--
Gregg Jackson
VA4WD
Land use coordinator
804-928-5537

[RuffRider]

I was so lookin' foward to goin' back there.

[Chele]

From Beltway Jeepers site:

Update:

A meeting has been set with the lead rangers next week to see what can be done. I will update after that meeting, and we can get together on our next step.

Gregg Jackson
Land use coordinator
VA4WDA

[CORE 4WD]

And this from the meeting, posted on VA4WDA site-



Land Use Announcements
June 15, 2006 - Important Notice: "Devils Ditch" is off limits.

The area often used by four wheel drive enthusiasts known as "Devils Ditch" is off limits. This area is in parts of Green and Madison Counties along with Shenandoah National Park and State Wildlife Management Areas, and is properly known as the Conway River Trail. Its one of those quiet trails that some people know about and others don't. Some of the problems are that the borders are not real clear; the actual trail was a historical road and is officially closed to motorized traffic.
Ranger Lora Peppers, of the SNP, has made it clear there is no legal motorized vehicle use of the Conway River Trail, within the park period! So, between crossing over unmarked private property, unintended use of State Wildlife Management Areas and illegal entry into SNP, we need to inform all of the clubs that this area is officially closed.

VA4WDA - Land Use Committee

[Chele]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but there ARE officials over these. We do have state representatives that can assist in this matter, no?

I am not familiar enough with government structure to say what they can/cannot do. Perhaps after I take my politics class in the fall...til then...anyone else know?!