Paul's "new" '78 Bronco

[Chuck]

Eggggcelent, Smithers. Another FSB in the group. If you haven't already found them, check out the Fullsize Bronco forum for ideas and answers. It's a great board, I'm usually on there a fair bit, I just haven't been around the computer much in the last couple of weeks.

The C-6 is an easy rebuild, my roommate just did the one in the F-150 he sold a few months ago. After the AOD, the C-6 looks like about three moving parts inside. ;D The 9" is also pretty freindly, plus you have really good odds of finding a factory four pinion LSD if you want to go limited slip on the cheap vice locker.

Another excellent idea to eliminate the bind and "giant antiswaybar effect" of the front D44 with the radius arms is to wrist one radius arm ...

As for the transfer case story, looks like I obviously don't have to point out how easy it is to add a 203 doubler to that setup. ;D

The 351M is actually a pretty decent engine, and since it already has the 385-series bellhousing pattern, you'll be able to drop in a 460 if the little M motor bites the dust. On the other hand, they're actually Ford's last pushrod V8 design (newer than both the 289/302/351W and 372/429/460), and aside from an absolutely godawful smog era combustion chamber design and an extremely tall compression height pistion in the 351M (the 351M and 400 use the same block, rods, and heads, the only differences are the crank and pistons -- weird), they do have their good features. A completely dry intake manifold (front coolant crossover is in the block) is one of them.

[PaulC]

Chuck,

Thanks for the info. Mainly what will be new to me will be the C6 rebuild. Got the kit just need to drop it out and rebuild it. The 9" is done. Got some good used stuff and helped out the traction situation with a mini spool and chromo cross pin.

I've seen the wristed radius arm set up. Not to keen on one radius arm handling all the braking and torque from the diff. The wirst axle housing is pretty cool but not 400 bucks worth of cool. I'll probably put new 7 degree C bushings in and get rid of the radius drop brakets and worry about getting alot of flex after it gets on the road.

I was eyeballing the doubler route. But kind of long in the Bronco wheelbase, plus the rear drive shaft angle is steep already. I have one in the Kaiser, but then it has plenty of wheel base. Maybe down the road I can get a klune V, much shorter then the NP203 and adapter. Though the NP203 doubler route would be cheaper.

Motor will get a tune up. Runs kind of rough.

First things first get it on the road.

PaulC

[Chuck]

There's a lot more room there than you think -- there are more than a few folks on FSB running doubler setups. A few shots of one I know that I could snag real quick:





It's definitely longer than stock, but works pretty well as long as you have a fairly short tranny like the C6, or even better the NP435 pictured. Check his rear DS angle -- not too horrible for a DC, and he's had great reliability rock crawling with it.



Look at it this way -- his NP435/203/205 setup is almost the same length as my factory E4OD/BW1356 combo. Almost all the common transmissions for this chassis are within an inch or two of the same length from bellhousing face to transfer case mounting face, but the E4OD is about eight inches longer than anything else. Add to that the 6" plus of planetary gearset in front of the chain case on the 1356, and you have a factory combo that's about the same length as the doubler setup pictured above.

That being said, and realizing that the doubler combo is only a couple of inches longer than what I have in mine, look how much space I have behind my companion flange:



Personally, I don't think I'd do a wristed setup without re-working both arms anyway. Luckily the arms are steel and not cast iron, so they're pretty easy to modify. I've actually seen a couple of people cut off the entire original arm behind the C bracket, and assemble bracketry for a custom four link off of the stock C brackets -- that also seems to work pretty well. I've seen a few folks box and extend the factory radius arms, and several build custom arms. Most of the solid front axle discussions on FSB are down in the SAS section of the board, and almost half are still using radius arm variants of the front suspension.

While I'm thinking of it, I may have a back seat for you. Need to verify whether they changed the seat mount between the 78-79 body and the 80-96, though. There were a suprising lot of things that carried over despite the major platform change, so odds are good that may too. I won't have much use for mine, since I now have a wall and a window an inch behind the front seat. ;D

[CORE 4WD]

Paul, Classicbroncos.com has lots of radius arm info there. Works for 2nd gen as well. That doubler set up is common with shorter wheelbase EB's...I gotta piece one together for mine!

[PaulC]

Dave and Chuck,

Thanks for the input. Since I have the C-6, NP 205 combo it would add doubler adapter and NP 203 reduction box length. I may get the part together to do it later, but for now I just plan on twin sticking the NP 205.

For the rear suspension I just replaced the rear leafs with '80s F250 rear leafs. They bolted in and gave me about 3.5" of lift. I still had to use the 2" blocks but I feel more comfortable with the F250 leafs and blocks verses the stock springs/ add a leafs/ and blocks. I'll see how it rides to decide if I remove the overload leaf.

Front suspension, just got new prothane 7 degree C bushings (so I can remove the radius arm drop brakets), track bar bushings, and radius arm bushings in. I still need to install them and remove the drop brackets, that will net about 5 inches more of break over angle. Before I do wristing of the arms, I'll use the C-bushing brackets just convert to a three link set up and call it done.

PaulC

[What It Was]

Sounds like you have a good turn around project going!... Do you have any recent pics of the BRONC?

[Chuck]

I believe the 78-79 chassis is also able to benefit from a shackle flip like my later 91 would. The 80's-90's trucks gain a couple of inches in the back, and you could probably eliminate your lift blocks. Just a matter of cutting off the shackle bracket, inverting it and the shackle, drilling, and bolting back on a little forward to maintain the same shackle angle.

[PaulC]

Jenn didn't feel well tonight, hence the reason why we didn't make it to the meeting. I think she caught the stomach virus that Madeline and I had. Also the traffic was terrible going back down when I was coming home to pick up Jenn and the kids.

Got a little work done to the Bronco. Put the new gears and little traction device (mini spool and chromo cross pin) in the rear end.

[ftp]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6da33b3127cce880bb489d09f00000016109AYs2TNq2bm[/ftp]

I love working on Ford 9" rear axles, so easy to set up. More to come. Hopefully I'll get the tranny and t-case out this weekend so I can start the rebuild on the C-6 and twin stick the NP205.

Chuck,

I looked into flipping the shackle, the body didn't have the clearance to support frame bracket in the old holes and it would have interfered with the rear cross member by the gas tank. Later on I'll probably build a new frame bracket once I get it running.

PaulC

[PaulC]

Got a few things done today of the ole' Bronco. Here are the old bushings:

[ftp]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6db04b3127cce89c8f2ac7e0800000016109AYs2TNq2bm[/ftp]

New 7 degree bushings:

[ftp]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6db04b3127cce89c8f2aa7e0e00000016109AYs2TNq2bm[/ftp]

Since I installed the 7 degree bushing I could remove the radius drop brackets. Huge difference in break over angle, gained about 5 inches more clearance:

[ftp]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6db04b3127cce89c8f2a9ff3d00000016109AYs2TNq2bm[/ftp]

More to come. Need to fix the frame where the track bar got loose and cracked it, raise the axle end and move the steering linkage above the knuckles.

PaulC

[Chuck]

Haven't had time to get on in ages, so I just now caught your earlier post. When doing a rear shackle flip, you actually have to move the bracket forward of the original location to keep the shackle angle right -- which means drilling new holes either way. If the bracket is kept in its original location and flipped, you end up with the shackle way too close to being "straight on" with the spring, and you'll end up with a rough ride and poor articulation at best ...

[PaulC]

Just an update. Got the tranny out to rebuild it. Found alot of metal in the pan when I dropped it. Pulled it all apart and found out why it wouldn't go forward any more...

[ftp]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6d804b3127cce8a38497f1aa600000016109AYs2TNq2bm[/ftp]

...this is the forward planetary gear. This is what happens when you go from forward to reverse without stopping fully. The prior owner was probably stuck and hammering it forward too reverse and then it stopped moving.

Here is one of the planetary gears...

[ftp]http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6d804b3127cce8a38497d1aa400000016109AYs2TNq2bm[/ftp]

...not looking so good. In the background you can see the sun gear all chewed up from switching directions under power.

Now I'm looking for new internal parts. Oh well.

PaulC

[87B2XLT]

www.airbagit-store.com/product_list.asp?id=2125 <--- found this when I was looking for pieces and parts for my upcoming buildup / project on my '87 BII. I'm contemplating fabricating new rear leaf shackle mounts... vice spending the $$$ on the mounts and shackles. I just need to get the material, draw up the plans, and find a welder

[Chuck]

paulc said:

...Now I'm looking for new internal parts. Oh well...

We had similar trouble with an AOD a few years ago, except in his case a disintegrating torque converter dropped fin bits into the gears. After pricing out the options, the cheapest choice for us turned out to be pulling another AOD at UWI to get the gearset. $75 for a complete (if worn out) transmission with good gears beat the heck out of $450 or so for a new gearset.

[PaulC]

Chuck,

I went with used replacement pieces. Pretty easy to find and not to expensive, plus I knew what I was getting. I'm just waiting for the shift kit and one new piece to show up and the tranny will be done. Jim Burnley helped out alot with the rebuilding. Older automatics aren't bad to rebuild, pretty simple once you take it apart and put it back together a few times.

87B2XLT,

I considered flipping the mounts but for ease and times sake I stuck with the stock mounting and just put F250 springs in. It gave it a 4 inch lift and better towing springs which is what I plan to do with it after a little body work.

PaulC

[PaulC]

It actually moved under its own power tonight. The tranny shifts really firm, Jim threw in a shift kit in when he put the valve body back together. Got a few little things to do before it is road worthy. Finish topping off the tranny. Took in 13 quarts of AFT so far, still not full. Finish bleeding the steering box and brakes.

PaulC