necro
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Post by necro on Apr 12, 2012 21:29:25 GMT -5
Check out this video, it's really hard to see but the JJ in this Currie track bar is moving 1/8th to 3/16th of an inch... nothing else in the steering, ball joints, control arms appears to have any movement, and the axle side of the same track bar is solidly mounted and has no movement at all.
The owner isn't experiencing DW, but he's having a pretty bad wobble from time to time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 8:15:23 GMT -5
Not ideal, but that wouldn't cause DW or even a bad wobble. I have always had a minute amount of movement in that area with the JJ cause they are in single shear. It doesn't look like it, but if there is really 3/16" movement then that may be a little excessive.
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necro
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Post by necro on Apr 13, 2012 10:24:41 GMT -5
That's a certain black LJ Rubicon that you helped re set up his rear suspension. That joint moves almost 1/4 of an inch, and it's the joint moving, not the bolt. It didn't show up very well in the video though because I suck at holding a camera steady. The axle side bushing doesn't move at all, just the JJ side. He also has about an inch of play at the steering wheel before his pitman arm even starts to move, so his steering lash needs to be tightened up also.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 12:52:06 GMT -5
I knew exactly who's Jeep that was when you posted the video.
I road tested his Jeep and drove it over RR tracks, hit potholes, and tried hard to induce wobble. What I found is that his steering is tighter than mine. So I think things are all relative to what is acceptable. I told Lee I think he is a little too demanding in what he expects from a Wrangler.
But then again, he also said that I didn't experience the wobble that he feels. I happen to have an extra JKS track bar that he or you is welcome to borrow to rule that out.
My suggestion was to swap a set of tires from another Jeep. Have you guys tried that? I know his tires are perfectly balanced, blah blah blah. But by his own admission this all started after he put those heavy tires on.
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necro
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Post by necro on Apr 13, 2012 22:19:15 GMT -5
He has to much lift to run my tires off of my Rubicon, his caster would be to little... but he doesn't have enough lift to run the 35's off of my 97 TJ... I don't believe that out of ballance/round tires can cause DW, or even anything more than a shimmy... otherwise everyone that plays in the mud would have DW until they sprayed off their tires and rims. The extra track bar might help him out though if it turns out his track bar has gone bad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 6:58:21 GMT -5
Tire size doesn't change what caster is physically set at. He has plenty of caster dialed in, in fact we have the uppers adjusted as far out as possible and he still has around 7 degrees IIRC.
Anyway, he doesn't have death wobble. A shimmy is precisely what he has, albeit a bad shimmy (althought when I drove it and then rode with him I did not notice any snimmy whatsover). He really needs to try a different pair of tires on at least the front for a day or two and rule it out. Too much of a coincidence that it started at the same time he got the tires to overlook this.
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necro
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Post by necro on Apr 14, 2012 13:18:58 GMT -5
If he has 7 degrees of caster than he could run my 31's off of my Rubicon. Tire size does matter though, the larger the tire the less caster is needed.
Did you and him already switch his rear tires for his fronts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 13:52:59 GMT -5
I think he has tried switching them several times. He also recently had them rebalanced and it doesnt look like a good balance job to me.
Good luck, I know Lee appreciates the help and it is always good to have a second look. His problem, whatever it is, isnt obvious. Let me know if you need anything. I can bring that track bar to OR if he wants to try it out. Are you going there too?
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necro
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Posts: 119
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Post by necro on Apr 15, 2012 0:30:52 GMT -5
The JJ on his track bar appears to have failed. It shouldn't be moving as much as it is for only having 7000 miles on it. I'm not sure what/where OR is? Would your track bar work with his mounting bracket? I think the Currie track bar requires the bolt hole to be drilled out to a larger size.
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Post by greenbean on Apr 15, 2012 6:12:23 GMT -5
The JJ on his track bar appears to have failed. It shouldn't be moving as much as it is for only having 7000 miles on it. I'm not sure what/where OR is? Would your track bar work with his mounting bracket? I think the Currie track bar requires the bolt hole to be drilled out to a larger size. Agree on the joint failure...I say order the parts from Currie and rebuild it as the cheapest fix alternative....I think it will solve that movement. Second he could go to a double shear design or a heim jointed track bar....but I think the joint rebuild will do it. I have found that over a number of builds, a very miniscule amount of play in that panhard/track bar will magnify shimmy or wobble even with smaller tires, add a bigger tire and it gets worse. I assume steering joints and unit bearings have been eliminated as a contributing factor.... My 2 cents Will |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2012 8:15:15 GMT -5
Yes, I am pretty sure the JKS track bar I have and the Currie he has are exactly the same. I know Currie changed their design a little, but his track bar was from before that I think. Either way, they have the same size JJ on the frame end.
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Post by Srfnfly227 on Apr 16, 2012 10:40:20 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't know about this thread or I would have contributed. Thanks for the help everybody.
Keith, I got your text the other day and appreciate the offer. I will be driving out your direction this week on my way to Greensboro so maybe I can pick up that bar on my way. I will also drop off that MORE bracket that I still owe you. I am thinking Wednesday or Thursday.
As for my steering, the problems go back a bit further than my lift and new tires. My Jeep has pulled to the right since installing the larger tires, but it has not always had the shimmy. The shimmy started sometime in the last 4-5 months. I only have about 5-6k miles on the tires and Greenbrier road force balanced them during the 5 tire rotation about 800 miles ago. If my Jeep weren't at the Suffolk Airport right now, I would take it in for an alignment. I would really like to know if my camber is off on either side and also what my toe is.
I ordered a new PSC steering box on Friday through Quadratec, but don't think that I will ever receive it. PSC discontinued the model I bought. I ordered it in the hope that they have a few left on the shelves for sales through other sites. I'm not very hopeful though. I was also going to adjust the lash in my current box, but after reading the write ups, it seems like it is pretty easy to mess that up. I thought I would wait until I could get some help.
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Post by Srfnfly227 on Apr 16, 2012 10:51:27 GMT -5
Will, Keith and I did a dry steering test and could not get movement from anything. Necro, noticed the slight amount of movement at the frame end of the track bar and I agree with him that it is there. I just have no idea if the amount of movement I have is normal. Everything suspension related was swapped out on my Jeep last summer. I upgraded to Currie parts and that includes the upper control mounts in the front. It also includes the Currie Steering. I keep coming back to the steering box being a contributing factor, but not my main problem. I drove out to Suffolk on Saturday morning and my steering wheel was wobbling pretty good. I am not saying that it isn't out of balance tires, but I just don't think that is the problem. While on the drive, I hit a pretty good bump and managed to get the clunking sound that I hear every now and then. Steering wheel shook like normal when I hit bumps and then suddenly, no more steering wheel wobble. The rest of the drive went smooth. I am starting to think more and more that something is not seated right in my front passenger side. When I hit bumps, it will sometimes reseat and my wobble is gone, and then I will another bump and the wobble comes back. I have no idea what would cause this, but the unit bearings and ball joints are still original. I have Spidertrax wheel spacers and verified them tight back in the fall. I should also say that when the steering wheel is wobbling, it almost goes away completely when I am in a turn. Here are 2 threads that I have started on other forums. I give a much more detailed explanation in these. www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/steering-problem-1334835/www.rubiconownersforum.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=79166 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 12:40:54 GMT -5
Well actually the track bar is in chesapeake at mr boucher's house. So unless someone is coming this way soon and willing to drop it off, you will need to stop off in great bridge. Im sure he or his bride will accomodate. Just let us know. On friday we are both leaving for Oak Ridge so you have to get it before then, or after we get back. Dont kill yourself on the steering bracket, no big deal right now and ill get it someday if it doesnt work out.
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Post by Srfnfly227 on Apr 17, 2012 8:58:18 GMT -5
No problem on the MORE bracket Keith. It is in my rental car and I am definitely coming to Suffolk this afternoon or tomorrow morning. I will bring the bracket by. I will let you know when I am headed that direction.
I am having Starr install new Synergy ball joints and Timken unit bearings. They are also going to recheck the alignment. Hopefully the Jeep won't pull right anymore. I decided to do this now since I currently have a rental car because of work. My Jeep is sitting at the Suffolk Airport so Starr makes sense for the service. Having the rental makes this the perfect time, plus I wanted to see if there is any difference on the trip this weekend.
I will post back up in this thread once I have the Jeep back from Starr. Best case, problem solved. Worst case, no difference but I will have confidence that at least those parts are still good.
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