Documentation of "CJ-7 Project"

[Chuck]

If you're willing to do a little fab work (which you obviously are! ;D) there are a number of vehicles you can pull springs off of ... I've seen a lot of guys take F150 and F250 springs and pull leaves to get a flexy, low-rate spring, all fullsize Ford springs except certain half ton stuff are 3". You can also use Chevy leaves for some things, most of theirs are 2-1/2". Sometimes it takes a little experimentation to get a spring pack that has the flex, rate, and arch you want, but considering you can pick up leaf springs at the junkyard so cheap, it's just a matter of time and patience. I've seen a couple of leaf suspensions built this way that work wonderfully well, and they're simple and tough ...

Check out this fella, his rig was one of my major inspirations. He's running a D60 leaf SAS up front and a D70U rear on 42's, and look at how much flex he's getting using stock Bronco leaves front and back (if I recall right):



Plus, by using identical front and rear springs, he has a matched springrate and a vehicle that balances very well.

[Deleted]

Um, if you were willing to do all that other fab work, and capable, then doing a YJ spring swap should be nothing for you.

[PaulC]

Fifesjeep,

Have you seen the Jeeps that have mad flex in the rear and the way they are driven? They drive to keep the front tires level and don't worry about the rear. For an over all trail Jeep you want the travel the same all the way around. If you do put those shackle arms on the rear and your going down a steep hill your going to be coughing up a car seat cover and how much the rear will rise and feel like your going to flip end over. Keep it balanced and you'll be more then happy. Fitting YJ springs on a CJ is easy. They fit fine into the frame mount, and the shackle will have to be widened a little on the bottom to fit the YJ bushing. To stop the killing of YJ leaves weld a long piece of 1/2 plate on top of the front spring perch, about 4 inches longer, and the rear make a traction bar. Also get yourself a set of XJ rear springs. Take the two top leaves out and put one of them in each YJ pack under the main leaf. You may have to cut the XJ leaves down a little to fit but you'll be golden.

PaulC
h in the front

[kwrangln]

Dont even bother trying to tune your springs untill the jeep is put together, get the drivetrain etc in there, then worry about spring rates. Doing it while you just have a body and frame is going to be a shot in the dark, and work you'll end up repeating.

The 9" front idea isn't the best. Reverse cut gears for the 9 are only available from truehi9.com, and the center section to run em is about $1500. A regular 9 center section will put the driveshaft too low, rock magnet. Having run a low pinion 44 front, I wouldn't recommend running a low pinion, driveshafts just get pretzeled.

Get a set of YJ springs, add a second main leaf as has been suggested already, plenty of flex and good ride. You will need a wrap bar on there, trust me, the rear will twist the springs like wet noodles without one.

Also, untill you get the rest of the jeep together, dont weld the perches solid, just keep em tacked in place so you can adjust as the suspension squats under the extra weight, same with setting castor. Why do the work twice?

[Chuck]

You don't have to be dead on with the gears, as long as you're within a couple of percent you're okay (as in 3.55 front/3.50 rear, etc.). What do you have for gears in the 9" right now?

Can the Waggy hubs and rotors be swapped for equivalent five-lug parts? If so, look at the 76-79 Ford stuff, since they're 5 on 5.5 and will match your rear ...

[Chuck]

3.50/3.54 are definitely a perfectly good match. I wouldn't even worry about it.

Is the waggy diff high pinion or low?

[PaulC]

All waggys are low pinion and have the springs perch cast into the bottom of the diff. It isn't that hard to narrow a front axle. So if you find a Ford high pinion with the spring perch cast into the pumpkin you're set. You could narrow the Ford front housing to waggy width and put all the waggs parts on the Ford housing. We're using a Ford Dana 44 front with a low pinion on Jenn's YJ. After I cranked the pinion up to line up with the front drive shaft the pinion out of the dirt. Also if you're considering converting the front over to 5 on 5.5 lug, compairs prices of getting new hubs/rotors/spindles to having the rear shafts filled/redrilled and new wheels to match the 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern.

PaulC

[PaulC]

Also Waggys driver side and passenger side diffs. The early years up to '79 were 58' wide. The later years '80 and up are about 60' inches. For your CJ you'll need a passenger side drop right. Then you'll need to find a Dodge or Chevy housing both have the perch cast into the top of the diff.

PaulC

[PaulC]

I'm measuring from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. That is how most axles are measured. Coverting to locking hubs is easy. Just get a set of locking hubs and install them. The directions come with the hubs most of the time. I have a set of Mile Marker hubs that would fit.

PaulC

[PaulC]

Would I mention it otherwise? I could bring them to the next meeting.

PaulC

[PaulC]

Yes but the Scout has external locking hubs, meaning the locking hub has six bolts holding it to the outside of the hub (weaker). Wagoneers have internal locking hubs, meaning the locking hubs goes inside the hub between the hub and axle shaft (which is stronger).

PaulC

[jeeepxj]

fifesjeep said:

Awesome... I'm slowly getting there!
Hey man, what would you rather use.. A ford front axle off of F-150 or a Waggy front axle?
And how would i know if a rear axle is a posi... (Axle is off of vehicle laying on the ground collecting rust). What can I do to check before purchasing it? (Call me stupid but I've always wondered and I never bothered to ask to find the answer). The reason I ask is because I'm looking at a 14 Bolt rear at the moment... If i's not posi what would be a simple fix to make it posi while saving $$$?
Sorry for all the questions... (I just want to do my "Project" Right!!!

Waggy axle (for width purposes) with Fords outers.

[PaulC]

Try picking up a Dana 60 or Dana 70.

If I was going spring over on a CJ it would be a chevy housing narrowed, using waggy shafts and ford outers.

PaulC

[Chuck]

fifesjeep said:

Tomorrow I go and pick up a "GM 14 Bolt Rear"... (If it's a 10.5" FF). I'm crossing my fingers that it is... BUT, Chances are it's 9.5" SF. I need to figure out how to convert the front lugs (6) to 8 lugs. Should I just have them weld filled and then re-drilled for the 8 pattern or find another set of options?

If you're going to hunt down Ford outers, get the outers from a Ford D44HD, not a regular D44. Same basic hubs, but the HD was 8-bolt, and everyone (Ford, GM, Chrysler) used the same 8 bolt pattern through the 70's and 80's (half the 90's too if I'm not mistaken before everyone started going metric). Problem solved. ;D I'm not certain (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but I believe you'll need the entire outside end of the D44HD, from the casting welded to the tube on out. Shouldn't be terribly hard to find, they were the factory front axle on every 4WD F-250 in the late 70's, with the exception of a few fairly rare ones (crew cab and snowfighter package) that got the D60.

If you want some really good information on swapping various D44's and their components, I definitely recommend checking out this page. He's got some pretty good info.

Is the 14B a FF? If not, hold out for one that is. The 10.5" FF is a great axle, a lot of the Bronco guys swap to 'em. They have pinion snout support like a 9", they're the only two axles I know that do. To check quickly whether the axle is limited slip with it not installed, turn one wheel forward. If the other wheel turns forward and the pinion flange rotates, it's limited slip. If the pinion turns and the other side axle doesn't, or the pinion doesn't turn and the other side axle turns backward, or anything between the two (basically anything other than the opposite axle turning at the same speed and same direction as the one you're turning), then it's open.

I've been given to understand the parts availability for the 14B isn't huge yet, apparently people are just discovering them for some reason. But the best thing you can probably do is save up for a Detroit for it ... it'll be worth your money.

[PaulC]

All older 44's have the same innner "C". Here is what you need to swap to the HD 44 outers. For Ford the outer knuckle, spindle, caliper bracket, outer shafts, hub, and locking hubs. Chevy you need outer knuckle out like the ford. I'm not sure about the Dodge.

For the 14 bolt get one with an open diff. Detroit lockers only fit in the open diff. They also make ARBs and spools for them. Get a dually 14 bolt is you can. They are about 63 inches wide.

PaulC